a nice message from the people @ moveon.org and my reply to this is below:
> Dear friend,
> The violence in Iraq is escalating beyond our control. It's time to recognize that we need the world's help to reach the hearts and minds of Iraqis. We've got to transfer management authority over Iraq to the United Nations, to enable a real transition to peaceful Iraqi self-rule. Please join me in calling for this change, at:
>
> http://www.moveon.org/unauthority/
>
> 60 Americans and reportedly hundreds of Iraqis have been killed in just the past week; 677 Americans have died in Iraq since the war began. A religious leader hostile to the United States now controls two cities, and has sparked uprisings in two others. Dozens of foreigners have been taken hostage.
>
> The growing opposition to American rule among the Iraqi population "probably runs in the tens of thousands", consisting of people who "have jobs in vegetable shops, offices, garages, and schools," according to the New York Times. These people, who should comprise the civil society we're hoping to build there, instead are arming themselves and awaiting the call to attack Americans.
>
> Our troops in Iraq are stretched thin -- U.S. commanders are asking for more troops, and there's talk of a draft, perhaps to be announced just after our November elections.
>
> Instead of simply redoubling our commitment, we should support our soldiers by taking the bull's-eye off their backs.
>
> As Thomas Friedman put it, "If it is America alone against the Iraqi street, we lose. If it is the world against the Iraqi street, we have a chance."
>
> Join me in calling for a transfer of authority over Iraq to the U.N., at:
>
> http://www.moveon.org/unauthority/
>
> Thanks.
-----[reply below]-----
this is an inherently bad idea. and this is why:
no one seems to remember that the UN issued multiple resolutions against the armament of the saddam government.
no one seems to care that these resolutions were ignored, unenforced and that the UN inspectors were treated poorly and were stalled and misled by their iraqi hosts. but that's okay. resolutions weren't meant to be enforced or anything.
why do those matter? because it shows a track record of blissful complacency and appeasement. this has historically happened before, and the results weren't too pretty.
as an american, i feel we can't rely on this group of political do-nothings to secure our peace in the future. the united nations has failed its own resolve too many times in the past.
the united nations has relocated their iraqi monitoring operation to cyprus, an island nation where no one can hurt them.
what the american and coalition people are doing in iraq is a good thing. i fail to understand how many americans follow the concept that war is evil and should not ever be used [war is not the answer bumper stickers, how very idealist]. if i hear another report of military serving in iraq being unhappy, i'm going to be cry. how deeply were your patriotic heartstrings pulled on 9/11? if your with the 'let's plead for help from the UN' crowd, apparently not enough. for those that feel this way, the next terrorist attack on american soil will hopefully force them to grow a pair. because sports fans it's not if, but when. and i'm giving a good hard look at something happening late october timeframe. asnar is out in spain, chalk up one for al-queda. running from a worldwide problem will only do one thing, ensure that the problem will be there to face you the second you stop or turn around.
all this talk of why didn't we do this and why didn't we do that [9/11 commission], is total crap. it's done and over, let's look to the future, and really get to know the geopolitical ramifications of the actions america and it's real allies are taking to ensure that there is an america in 20 years, not just some piece of 6th century binladenstan.
to me the moveon.org crowd come off as solely anti-war and anti-bush. what is their solution? put our tail between our legs and try diplomacy with a group of outside thugs fighting under a hijacked ideology who don't want progress or rights for the people of a ficticious nation created after WWI. maybe invite them over for tea so that we can reason with them? the only way to deal with violent people is with violence. hoping that the outcome is going to be different using other methods is futile.
i'm of the belief that we are not only fighting iraqis in iraq, but trained soldiers from the likes of tehran and damascus and beirut. and you can't forget the chechens there either. the myopic enclosed border view taken on this issue of why we shouldn't be there is not based in reality. this is not a conflict about borders, this is taking the fight to a place where it's not impacting us on a daily basis.
today ariel sharon met with president bush. they are discussing a land transfer for those palestinian people. what this really means is that israel is going to hand back some of gaza, move the israelis out of the area forcibly relocating their own citizens, and hand it over to a leader of a people who only know hate and violence. i think this is great because now the israelis can go tell those green rag wearing people blowing up their youth where to stick it the next time they try to blow up civlians in israel. i stopped feeling sorry for the palestinians, and i hope that they have a nice population thinning civil war to rid themselves of the hamas and pflp and islamic jihad scourge that offer no hope of peace. diplomacy will not work, it will take a body count. welcome to planet earth, 2004.
"60 Americans and reportedly hundreds of Iraqis have been killed in just the past week; 677 Americans have died in Iraq since the war began. A religious leader hostile to the United States now controls two cities, and has sparked uprisings in two others. Dozens of foreigners have been taken hostage."
ooh, people died? now we just can't have that now can we? a religious leader controls two cities. a religious zealot controls an entire country to the east, but they don't mention that. and last i checked, they don't give us ugly infidel americans a warm fuzzy hug. more like a cold stare and the finger. dozens of foregners have been taken hostage? oh that's just terrible and we should leave immediately. this touchy-feely rhetoric of america as the evil empire who should take better care of their own people is a farce. if we don't take the fight to them, do these progressive types understand that the fight will be brought to us?
and 677 americans dead in 1 year's time pales in comparison to the 11k killed from guns and the 40k killed from auto accidents [17k of those allcohol related] domestically. when the number is put into perspective, it's not all that bad. this is a war, and it's not over and people are going to die.
i'm not anti-anyone. although i am fervent believer that sects of religious fundamentalists [of all faiths] who use their religion to promote violence and hate need to die. when was the last time you saw an anti-iraqi or anti-syrian message on the teevee or heard one on the radio. as an american, i only hold those that bastardize a faith followed in peace by over a billion humans responsible.
the tactics employed by these 'insurgents' is one of guerilla warfare. no treaty, no geneva convention, no uniform. yet we play by the rules and get flak from the international community for it? the enemy combatants in gtmo? yeah, so they don't get the rights of american citizens, because they aren't! we could just do onto them what their brothers [or so they think] did to those men in fallujah or mogadishu. but we don't. we feed and house and clothe them to the minimum required by international law. and that's just not good enough? f that.
as much as i would like to return to the days of 9/10/2001 where the only thing we were concerned with what happened to Chandra Levy and what Gary Condit had to do with it, the fact is that america is dead and buried. buried beneath the rubble left behind on manhattan island and in the beltway. so soon we forget that this was the culmination of a failed plot in 1993. then there was Waco and OKC, which served as a reminder that the man with the turban is not the only fundamentalist jerk out there. then the african embassies, and the uss cole. if we want to get all black and white party, these events all had one thing in common. the same president was in office during them. and little was done to make reparations for these events. we fired a few missles into afghan, and destroyed a sudanese chemical plant. yet the problem still remained. we were too worried about upsetting anyone to force bin laden out of afghan. the clinton administration asked the taliban 21 times during the 8 year term, and dubya asked another 3 before 9/11. all with the same reply. the backwards regime told us to go pound sand.
i've come to realize that my beliefs do not conforrm to one political party, hence my new non-affiliation. i would feel safer knowing bush was in office as compared to that JFK remake of a wishy washy no moxie candidate. if clinton could run again, the democratic party might have someone worth backing, but kerry is not the guy. i'd rather have edwards as a nominee, at least he has some substance.
that's all for now. i hope you understand my position. the handwringing about american casualties will only mean something to me when the ratio of non-americans killing americans becomes greater than americans killing americans themselves. this is not a useless war and is damn sure not another vietnam. the only way saddam kept iraq together was with violence, fear and intimidation. i'm glad he's gone, you? the ends justified the means in this case. one less radical government funding terrorism. and it's not the taliban. saddam's cronies gave families of palestinean suicide bombers cash payouts from the money he made in the UN sponsored aid for oil program. he just didn't have to say who he was aiding.
-tehrawr-
> Dear friend,
> The violence in Iraq is escalating beyond our control. It's time to recognize that we need the world's help to reach the hearts and minds of Iraqis. We've got to transfer management authority over Iraq to the United Nations, to enable a real transition to peaceful Iraqi self-rule. Please join me in calling for this change, at:
>
> http://www.moveon.org/unauthority/
>
> 60 Americans and reportedly hundreds of Iraqis have been killed in just the past week; 677 Americans have died in Iraq since the war began. A religious leader hostile to the United States now controls two cities, and has sparked uprisings in two others. Dozens of foreigners have been taken hostage.
>
> The growing opposition to American rule among the Iraqi population "probably runs in the tens of thousands", consisting of people who "have jobs in vegetable shops, offices, garages, and schools," according to the New York Times. These people, who should comprise the civil society we're hoping to build there, instead are arming themselves and awaiting the call to attack Americans.
>
> Our troops in Iraq are stretched thin -- U.S. commanders are asking for more troops, and there's talk of a draft, perhaps to be announced just after our November elections.
>
> Instead of simply redoubling our commitment, we should support our soldiers by taking the bull's-eye off their backs.
>
> As Thomas Friedman put it, "If it is America alone against the Iraqi street, we lose. If it is the world against the Iraqi street, we have a chance."
>
> Join me in calling for a transfer of authority over Iraq to the U.N., at:
>
> http://www.moveon.org/unauthority/
>
> Thanks.
-----[reply below]-----
this is an inherently bad idea. and this is why:
no one seems to remember that the UN issued multiple resolutions against the armament of the saddam government.
no one seems to care that these resolutions were ignored, unenforced and that the UN inspectors were treated poorly and were stalled and misled by their iraqi hosts. but that's okay. resolutions weren't meant to be enforced or anything.
why do those matter? because it shows a track record of blissful complacency and appeasement. this has historically happened before, and the results weren't too pretty.
as an american, i feel we can't rely on this group of political do-nothings to secure our peace in the future. the united nations has failed its own resolve too many times in the past.
the united nations has relocated their iraqi monitoring operation to cyprus, an island nation where no one can hurt them.
what the american and coalition people are doing in iraq is a good thing. i fail to understand how many americans follow the concept that war is evil and should not ever be used [war is not the answer bumper stickers, how very idealist]. if i hear another report of military serving in iraq being unhappy, i'm going to be cry. how deeply were your patriotic heartstrings pulled on 9/11? if your with the 'let's plead for help from the UN' crowd, apparently not enough. for those that feel this way, the next terrorist attack on american soil will hopefully force them to grow a pair. because sports fans it's not if, but when. and i'm giving a good hard look at something happening late october timeframe. asnar is out in spain, chalk up one for al-queda. running from a worldwide problem will only do one thing, ensure that the problem will be there to face you the second you stop or turn around.
all this talk of why didn't we do this and why didn't we do that [9/11 commission], is total crap. it's done and over, let's look to the future, and really get to know the geopolitical ramifications of the actions america and it's real allies are taking to ensure that there is an america in 20 years, not just some piece of 6th century binladenstan.
to me the moveon.org crowd come off as solely anti-war and anti-bush. what is their solution? put our tail between our legs and try diplomacy with a group of outside thugs fighting under a hijacked ideology who don't want progress or rights for the people of a ficticious nation created after WWI. maybe invite them over for tea so that we can reason with them? the only way to deal with violent people is with violence. hoping that the outcome is going to be different using other methods is futile.
i'm of the belief that we are not only fighting iraqis in iraq, but trained soldiers from the likes of tehran and damascus and beirut. and you can't forget the chechens there either. the myopic enclosed border view taken on this issue of why we shouldn't be there is not based in reality. this is not a conflict about borders, this is taking the fight to a place where it's not impacting us on a daily basis.
today ariel sharon met with president bush. they are discussing a land transfer for those palestinian people. what this really means is that israel is going to hand back some of gaza, move the israelis out of the area forcibly relocating their own citizens, and hand it over to a leader of a people who only know hate and violence. i think this is great because now the israelis can go tell those green rag wearing people blowing up their youth where to stick it the next time they try to blow up civlians in israel. i stopped feeling sorry for the palestinians, and i hope that they have a nice population thinning civil war to rid themselves of the hamas and pflp and islamic jihad scourge that offer no hope of peace. diplomacy will not work, it will take a body count. welcome to planet earth, 2004.
"60 Americans and reportedly hundreds of Iraqis have been killed in just the past week; 677 Americans have died in Iraq since the war began. A religious leader hostile to the United States now controls two cities, and has sparked uprisings in two others. Dozens of foreigners have been taken hostage."
ooh, people died? now we just can't have that now can we? a religious leader controls two cities. a religious zealot controls an entire country to the east, but they don't mention that. and last i checked, they don't give us ugly infidel americans a warm fuzzy hug. more like a cold stare and the finger. dozens of foregners have been taken hostage? oh that's just terrible and we should leave immediately. this touchy-feely rhetoric of america as the evil empire who should take better care of their own people is a farce. if we don't take the fight to them, do these progressive types understand that the fight will be brought to us?
and 677 americans dead in 1 year's time pales in comparison to the 11k killed from guns and the 40k killed from auto accidents [17k of those allcohol related] domestically. when the number is put into perspective, it's not all that bad. this is a war, and it's not over and people are going to die.
i'm not anti-anyone. although i am fervent believer that sects of religious fundamentalists [of all faiths] who use their religion to promote violence and hate need to die. when was the last time you saw an anti-iraqi or anti-syrian message on the teevee or heard one on the radio. as an american, i only hold those that bastardize a faith followed in peace by over a billion humans responsible.
the tactics employed by these 'insurgents' is one of guerilla warfare. no treaty, no geneva convention, no uniform. yet we play by the rules and get flak from the international community for it? the enemy combatants in gtmo? yeah, so they don't get the rights of american citizens, because they aren't! we could just do onto them what their brothers [or so they think] did to those men in fallujah or mogadishu. but we don't. we feed and house and clothe them to the minimum required by international law. and that's just not good enough? f that.
as much as i would like to return to the days of 9/10/2001 where the only thing we were concerned with what happened to Chandra Levy and what Gary Condit had to do with it, the fact is that america is dead and buried. buried beneath the rubble left behind on manhattan island and in the beltway. so soon we forget that this was the culmination of a failed plot in 1993. then there was Waco and OKC, which served as a reminder that the man with the turban is not the only fundamentalist jerk out there. then the african embassies, and the uss cole. if we want to get all black and white party, these events all had one thing in common. the same president was in office during them. and little was done to make reparations for these events. we fired a few missles into afghan, and destroyed a sudanese chemical plant. yet the problem still remained. we were too worried about upsetting anyone to force bin laden out of afghan. the clinton administration asked the taliban 21 times during the 8 year term, and dubya asked another 3 before 9/11. all with the same reply. the backwards regime told us to go pound sand.
i've come to realize that my beliefs do not conforrm to one political party, hence my new non-affiliation. i would feel safer knowing bush was in office as compared to that JFK remake of a wishy washy no moxie candidate. if clinton could run again, the democratic party might have someone worth backing, but kerry is not the guy. i'd rather have edwards as a nominee, at least he has some substance.
that's all for now. i hope you understand my position. the handwringing about american casualties will only mean something to me when the ratio of non-americans killing americans becomes greater than americans killing americans themselves. this is not a useless war and is damn sure not another vietnam. the only way saddam kept iraq together was with violence, fear and intimidation. i'm glad he's gone, you? the ends justified the means in this case. one less radical government funding terrorism. and it's not the taliban. saddam's cronies gave families of palestinean suicide bombers cash payouts from the money he made in the UN sponsored aid for oil program. he just didn't have to say who he was aiding.
-tehrawr-
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